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Post by peggs on Apr 8, 2016 0:49:19 GMT
Thank you for this excellent and civil discussion.
I do not have a strong opinion on the issue and after reading your viewpoints, am still uncertain. Both pro and con are valid arguments.
If I can gather my thoughts and make a coherent contribution to the discussion, I will do so.
In the meantime, please carry on.
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Post by miles on Apr 8, 2016 1:26:48 GMT
Thanks Peggs, and thanks to everyone. One thing I think that may be a difference between the drug laws in the UK and those in the US. Over here the war on drugs was mostly a war on minority communities, it was a political means of repression, more about suppression of rights than concern for anyone's wellbeing. The crimes and violence associated with drug dealing, is a result of their being illegal and highly profitable. There grew out of this war a prison for profit industry and the highest incarceration rate in the west. Penalties that were supposed to be for kingpins and violent crimes were also applied to those with mere associations or minor involvement in the trade. Many others with a minor violation have had permanent penalties besides jail, loss of school aid, professional licenses so you can't work in your field, and loss of voting rights (and this is a big part of the design.) Again, all these penalties are disproportionately suffered by people of color.
I don't know, but I just assume the laws have been less draconian ( on pot ) in the UK. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 5:52:22 GMT
Shall we ban cell phones because people text and drive?
No, but there seems little will to address the problem. Which is the point I'm making. We introduce things and don't put adequate sensible measures in place to deal with the fall out from misuse.
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 7:22:57 GMT
Police can issue a warning or a small on-the-spot fine if you are found with it. Supply carries a much stronger punishment. Both can result in jail time but possession for your own use is usually just a slap on the wrist or nothing at all. As far as I know. Drugs are pretty much so out of hand the police can't cope so don't bother. My son's friend got caught with cocaine on him and was taken to the station and then released without charge. The emphasis is on the suppliers. But with drugs readily available to buy I'm guessing it's just the top end of the supply chain that is targeted.
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Post by longinglook on Apr 8, 2016 12:00:41 GMT
No one has ever died of a pot overdose. Maybe not. But people have caused deaths by their reckless actions whilst being stoned. I promise I am not trying to wave a red cape at the old bull here, but can you please elaborate on what deaths have been caused by people's reckless actions whilst (I love that word!) being stoned on marijuana? Ta!
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 12:10:08 GMT
Recently in England a young man was jailed for driving at a policeman whilst stoned on weed. He'd broken into a house to steal money to buy more weed and had taken the car keys and subsequently the car. The policeman died. What is it that you don't get?
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Post by longinglook on Apr 8, 2016 12:19:37 GMT
That's terrible! Where did this happen?
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 12:23:20 GMT
Wirral, near Liverpool.
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Post by longinglook on Apr 8, 2016 13:19:02 GMT
Okay, I found the story online, and it is indeed a terrible tale. My brother is a cop. An officer getting killed in the line of duty is a tragedy, no matter how it happens. Like miles said earlier, I don't want children to be exposed to any drugs, (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, etc.), and I don't want anyone driving impaired. But can you at least accept the possibility that the young criminal who killed the cop in Wirral had other problems in his life that resulted in him committing his crimes? He wasn't exactly a good kid with a bright future who smoked weed and then things went kablooey, right? He seems to have had a pretty messed up life from the get-go. Smoking weed was a big part of his life, but was it the cause of his anti-social behavior? Charles Manson and his followers liked Beatles music. They used to listen to the White Album before they went out and committed their murders. The Beatles aren't to blame for those killings; the killers were fucked up for different reasons. They just happened to like the White Album in addition to being crazy enough to kill people. Again, not trying to fight, don. You said earlier you had never used marijuana. That's fine! If we lived in a world where no one felt the need to escape from the pressure a bit by having a drink or smoking a joint, it would be a more beautiful existence indeed. But many, many people do like to indulge in alcohol, or in marijuana, or in chatting on band forums to relieve their stress. The majority of those people do so peacefully and without any really damaging effects on their lives or on the lives of others. My reason for starting this thread was my happiness over the fact that it is less likely I will face the threat of going to jail in New Orleans if I am found with a small amount of marijuana meant for my personal use. That is a good and just thing. Just like it is good and just that I am allowed to have a glass of wine or a shot of vodka without having to face prison time. I've smoked enough marijuana for both of us, donavan. I've also been drunk once or twice. It's a very different high, believe me. Marijuana does not typically make people violent- just the opposite! Drink can make people VERY violent and unpleasant, even pussycats like you and me. I think if you knew how it feels to use marijuana your opinion would change.
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Post by sticksman1 on Apr 8, 2016 13:32:45 GMT
"Another big step may be coming, that is the reclassification of marijuana from a schedule 1 drug (the same category as heroin) to a schedule 2 drug, which has some medical uses but is also likely to be abused. The scheduling was largely responsible for the lack of a scientific research on this drug, if it is rescheduled it would be a giant step to a more rational policy."
Heroin was originally developed for medical purposes... where do we draw the line? :\
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Post by longinglook on Apr 8, 2016 14:04:35 GMT
"Another big step may be coming, that is the reclassification of marijuana from a schedule 1 drug (the same category as heroin) to a schedule 2 drug, which has some medical uses but is also likely to be abused. The scheduling was largely responsible for the lack of a scientific research on this drug, if it is rescheduled it would be a giant step to a more rational policy." Heroin was originally developed for medical purposes... where do we draw the line? :\ Okay, Dr. longinglook is now prescribing that you and don get together and share a joint as soon as possible. Y'all both need to understand that it is not the same as using heroin. I've never used heroin, but "Panic in Needle Park" and "The Man with the Golden Arm" are both good movies and I don't think Al Pacino or Frank Sinatra would intentionally lead us to misunderstanding. Seriously, sticks, you tell me where we draw the line. Do we outlaw liquor for adults? Prescription drugs? This discussion goes round and round.
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Post by sticksman1 on Apr 8, 2016 14:52:27 GMT
There's the crux! I don't know... we all don't know! :\
Out of necessity, I no longer drink. Out of sanity, I don't do drugs.
What might seem acceptable to some will not for others... and so it goes round... there may never be an answer... it's the Human condition.
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 15:06:21 GMT
I thought marijuana was a class B drug already. When I said I've never smoked a joint or had a whacky cigarette, I meant I haven't done it enough to be qualified to talk about it. And it was ages ago and pretty crappy gear. Didn't make me won't to do it again. I did however and sometimes still do drink like a bastard. If you read my posts, I've constantly said I'm undecided on the issue. It's just you pot smokers do rather play down any bad aspects of the drug, I'm just redressing the balance. I started off by saying it's tricky and it is. No one is right or wrong. But I know enough pot heads and drunks to know there is no safe drug and flippancy should not be the currency. God I need a drink.
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 15:14:23 GMT
I guess flippancy is OK sometimes
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Post by donavan on Apr 8, 2016 15:17:06 GMT
Everything's gone green.
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