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Post by bimble on Nov 24, 2021 15:19:39 GMT
One of my friend's husbands teaches Gender Studies at a small college. She made a clear distinction between sex and gender. Sex is what we are born with, although that may be different than the sex we identify with. Gender is all the other stuff, how we dress, our behavior, how we portray ourselves, interact with others etc. That's the thing: it seems that a lot of the new thinking says there is no such thing as sex. Well, that be rubbish! Gender, now: yes. If we look at traditional roles, I do all the cooking and such cleaning as gets done in our house. I spent 15 years as primary carer for our kids as my wife earned, and still earns, a lot more than I did/do. So by that token, she's more of a man than I'll ever be...... It's not far different from race and ethnicity: your race is your genes, your ethnicity is your culture. I read something a little while ago that trashed "assigned" sex by saying that "when you were born, the doctor took a look at you and, based on nothing more than what they saw, assigned you a sex". Well of course they fuckin' did. There are people that are genuinely hermaphrodite, and there are people that feel they aren't the sex that their chromosomes determine, but that second group need to properly live as the other sex and have full on re-assignment surgery for me to ever truly believe they're what they say they are. So Eddie Izzard can fuck right off. You're a man/woman who dresses like a woman/man? Fine, I'm happy to go along with that but.... Discuss.
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Post by miles on Nov 24, 2021 21:22:16 GMT
It is interesting how many otherwise liberal thinkers, I'm thinking of JK Rowling here, have drawn the line at transgender rights. I think the relaxing of gender roles is here to stay, while at the same time, many or most will remain in traditional cis-gendered ones. It is also clear that the far-right in the US wants traditional roles codified, and have made attacks on transgendered people a litmus test, along with outlawing abortions and hating CRT (which isn't being taught and they don't know what it even is.)
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Post by Mare on Nov 24, 2021 21:34:05 GMT
One of my friend's husbands teaches Gender Studies at a small college. She made a clear distinction between sex and gender. Sex is what we are born with, although that may be different than the sex we identify with. Gender is all the other stuff, how we dress, our behavior, how we portray ourselves, interact with others etc. That's the thing: it seems that a lot of the new thinking says there is no such thing as sex. Well, that be rubbish! Gender, now: yes. If we look at traditional roles, I do all the cooking and such cleaning as gets done in our house. I spent 15 years as primary carer for our kids as my wife earned, and still earns, a lot more than I did/do. So by that token, she's more of a man than I'll ever be...... It's not far different from race and ethnicity: your race is your genes, your ethnicity is your culture. I read something a little while ago that trashed "assigned" sex by saying that "when you were born, the doctor took a look at you and, based on nothing more than what they saw, assigned you a sex". Well of course they fuckin' did. There are people that are genuinely hermaphrodite, and there are people that feel they aren't the sex that their chromosomes determine, but that second group need to properly live as the other sex and have full on re-assignment surgery for me to ever truly believe they're what they say they are. So Eddie Izzard can fuck right off. You're a man/woman who dresses like a woman/man? Fine, I'm happy to go along with that but.... Discuss. I am in agreement that how we live our lives need not conform with the gender roles of yesteryear. You can be very proud of yourself for being there for your family in the way you did...I think it is good for a child to know that their parents are adaptable and can make things work no matter what. Gender reassignment is probably pretty danged expensive and may be cost prohibitive for many who feel they were forced into being the opposite of what they feel they would have chosen without parental or societal intervention. Eddie Izzard-I would have loved to have him as a sister. He would be much easier to communicate with than those in my family that are extremely conservative. People who have had others judging them based on appearances all their lives and work hard to get past that. and moved on to have successful lives & careers and have demonstrated to others that there is an option to the social mores and shoeboxes of previous generations. They are putting it out there that with self acceptance comes a degree of happiness and self satisfaction that will never be gained when you dislike yourself for what you have been told you must be because of your anatomy. It is an individual's choice. I have always treated the concept "Gender Non-Specific" as a reality. Perhaps it should be put on Birth Certificates until the individual figures out what they are identifying as. This stuff is complicated and serious, and like organized religion, should not be crammed down anyone's throat before they even understand what is going on. Somebody probably didn't want to make a bunch of individual bathrooms at schools, churches and other public places, just crowd each sex into separate bathrooms so there's no legal issues. Even worse, the decision was left to people who assumed they knew everything about humans. I knew someone who had a child that no longer wanted to be treated as the physical gender it was born with. The parents had to get an attorney just so their child could use an individual bathroom at school. The school district got involved. I was very sad for them having to go way beyond the casual "Hey, just use the bathroom in the office", but the parents were amazing advocates for their child, who was seven years old.
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Post by Mare on Nov 24, 2021 21:38:02 GMT
It is interesting how many otherwise liberal thinkers, I'm thinking of JK Rowling here, have drawn the line at transgender rights. I think the relaxing of gender roles is here to stay, while at the same time, many or most will remain in traditional cis-gendered ones. It is also clear that the far-right in the US wants traditional roles codified, and have made attacks on transgendered people a litmus test, along with outlawing abortions and hating CRT (which isn't being taught and they don't know what it even is.) Yeah, they really flipped out in the 60s, when lots of guys had long hair and were clean shaven.
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Post by bluedemon25 on Nov 25, 2021 5:09:46 GMT
I feel like the mayor would have a valuable perspective to add here.
As for me, I have heard gender reassignment surgery can be extraordinarily expensive snd not always covered. So thats one reason Id feel it inappropriate to doubt someone's sincere feeling they are transgender just because they haven't made medical changes. Im probably ignorant or other important details just as I am for identities not my own. Doesn't mean they arent valid and dederving or civility respect and equality under law. And ill put it out there that while i thankfully havrnt known one in such a situation, LGBTQ suicide which includes the T as in transgender is a very real and serious issue. I dont think it's most people, but in this country at least (not that it's by any means a monopoly) we sure have a LOT OR LOUD mouthed bigots that seem to get off on making life hell for anyone that is "other" and yeah in my experience it does tene to have a correlation with uneducated and religious fervor or what have you. My point I suppose is, if one doesnt understand it that's fine please dont bully baser on someone's perceived or actual identity it can have terrible consequences and it shouldnt matter much if at all to us anyway.
I'm not going to get into a back and forth for tbose eho love debate if that arisee here, feel free to have it with someone else. Ive hesed enough bs of the sort to last a lifetime. I have better things to spenr my time on.
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Post by bimble on Nov 25, 2021 7:18:42 GMT
JK Rowling didn't so much draw the line at transgender rights, she pointed out how in many cases they had a negative effect on women's rights. As has been said, evrything now seems to be polarised and you're either one side or another. You're not allowed to be somewhere in the middle ground.
Point taken about the expense (in most countries, I think you can get it on the NHS here) of reassignment surgery. For me, the problem with saying that trans men and women are actual men and women doesn't work. I can no more decide to be a woman than decide to be a dog. It's simply not (bio)logical. I will truly support anyone living their life in a way that they wish to, as long as it doesn't massively negatively affect those around them. Unfortunately, a small minority are having a very noisy say and at the same time adversely affecting women's rights.
Vive le difference, eh?
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Post by bluedemon25 on Nov 25, 2021 14:06:55 GMT
Can this move to a dedicated thread please?
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Post by Mare on Nov 25, 2021 16:54:53 GMT
Sorry Bluey. This is a place for appreciating you, and that I truly do. Happy Birthday!!! <3
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Post by miles on Nov 26, 2021 19:41:04 GMT
It was argued for a long time (probably still is) that allowing same-sex couples to marry would "harm" traditional male female marriage. It was always bullshit. I don't understand the argument that male to female transsexuals harm women, so I won't comment on that, other than it sounds questionable.
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Post by bluedemon25 on Nov 27, 2021 0:23:01 GMT
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Post by bimble on Nov 27, 2021 12:26:17 GMT
It is interesting how many otherwise liberal thinkers, I'm thinking of JK Rowling here, have drawn the line at transgender rights. I think the relaxing of gender roles is here to stay, while at the same time, many or most will remain in traditional cis-gendered ones. It is also clear that the far-right in the US wants traditional roles codified, and have made attacks on transgendered people a litmus test, along with outlawing abortions and hating CRT (which isn't being taught and they don't know what it even is.) miles: just to say this is a link to what J.K. Rowling wrote, for which she received all the villification. Not in any way transphobic anywhere, I think.... www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
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Post by bimble on Nov 27, 2021 12:27:19 GMT
Can this move to a dedicated thread please? Oh, and sorry, BD,......
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Post by Mare on Nov 29, 2021 0:32:42 GMT
Christmas comes from a flotilla of freighters piled high with containers, and won't be here until at least Easter.
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Post by Finntrovertigo on Nov 29, 2021 0:36:11 GMT
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Post by bluedemon25 on Nov 29, 2021 8:19:10 GMT
I like pies, macarons, tarts, historical recipes especially if old, a few hundred years old, and not revolting or smacking of objectionable gratuitous animal abuse (NOT saying im vegetarian. Im. Not let's not get fuether in to it. PLEASE? MY ocd WOULD MAKE ME SUFFER EVEN HEARING IT). I LOVE WEIRD INGREDIENTS AND DRINKS AND TEAS. MUCH MID 60S THRU 80S MUSIC SOME 90S AND SUPER DUMB ASS "Dad jokes". Lets focus on that here, please.
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