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Post by donavan on Aug 27, 2021 18:39:39 GMT
Just talking about the exit strategy which has been shambolic and tragic. The strategy was to get out with the support of the Afghan army. The army collapsed. War is chaos, hell and fog. It should have started sooner processing and taking people out in an orderly manner much earlier. We could all see what was coming. Listened to Biden today quoting the Bible then saying how he will never forgive the terrorists and will hunt them down and kill them. Which Bible is he reading? And what about those left behind? I feel sorry for the people on the front line trying to sort this out. But it's been a shambles by the politicians. And taking pets out before people sort of sums this up.
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Post by miles on Aug 27, 2021 21:06:32 GMT
The whole process for getting people out was ratfucked by one steven miller. TFG released Taliban fighters from prisons, LAST YEAR, then the locals could see the inevitable. The original date to leave was May 1st, you think that would have been better? As has been pointed out, if the US did a massive pullout of civilians far ahead of withdrawal, we would be saying the government will soon fall, and chaos would result. It did fall, even faster, so it would have been pretty much the same either way.
You have consistently told us to "be nice" to trump, that he would win in a landslide etc. You haven't ever cut Biden a break. Makes me wonder.
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Post by Mare on Aug 27, 2021 22:07:03 GMT
I don't think even Trump would have made a bigger mess than what is occurring. Trump announced the troops were coming home while he was still in office. When he left the White House, he did not leave any plans that his administration had discussed. Nothing. He left a bomb that blew up on every American (troops and citizens and Afghani translators and those there who supported the US military in any way plus the family members and friends of troops and operatives in the US not to mention any new cabinet member and negotiator and all Intelligence covert or not in a hot cauldron of stinky, ugly, yucky muck. IMHO, Trump instigated this problem and likely knew that it would be a Political Time Bomb for the incoming administration.
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Post by donavan on Aug 27, 2021 22:23:38 GMT
Please stop this party politics. This is people's lives. And if it makes you feel better, then it's a fuck up all round. But Biden is guilty too. I made the same mistake with Blair but over time came to realise the truth. He screwed up. So did Trump and Biden. They have no loyalty to you so why protect them. Step out of your political colours. They are all the ugly underneath. Joe's Bible talk proved that today. Dear God, have we learnt nothing?
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Post by Mare on Aug 27, 2021 22:32:21 GMT
That's the big problem, donavan...since the real history isn't taught in schools NOBODY can learn from it. It is all redacted and hushed up, kept on the down low so careers aren't ended etc. If we stop talking about it, then the real history will disappear or become like some Arthurian legend, endowed with greatness and, for lack of a better word, "fluffed" up. I'm not here to pick fights, my friend. Human Nature is a truly fucked up thing, and the greedy, jealous and angry will continue to grab everyone elses' shit when they aren't looking.
That is why I added it is my opinion. I don't have all the facts...it is my instinct that tells me what seems reasonable. It is not reasonable to put a time limit on evacuation. It is not reasonable to think you can ever know the facts. I mean how can you expect any Intelligence released by say, the Pentagon, to be informative of every detail of evacuation when that info goes out globally and into the hands of everybody? You can't.
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Post by donavan on Aug 27, 2021 23:02:46 GMT
And that's why we shouldn't nail our colours to a party that you think represents us. I'm done with that. But others can't let go. Set yourself free. It's still a fucked up vista but at least you don't have that pressure of what you should be thinking obscuring your view.
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Post by bluedemon25 on Aug 27, 2021 23:55:45 GMT
2000 posts
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Post by Mare on Aug 28, 2021 1:57:13 GMT
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Post by miles on Aug 30, 2021 21:39:57 GMT
Sending out good wishes to Longinglook in Ida ravaged LA. Hope she and family are Okay and will get their power back soon.
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Post by donavan on Aug 30, 2021 22:45:48 GMT
The whole process for getting people out was ratfucked by one steven miller. TFG released Taliban fighters from prisons, LAST YEAR, then the locals could see the inevitable. The original date to leave was May 1st, you think that would have been better? As has been pointed out, if the US did a massive pullout of civilians far ahead of withdrawal, we would be saying the government will soon fall, and chaos would result. It did fall, even faster, so it would have been pretty much the same either way. You have consistently told us to "be nice" to trump, that he would win in a landslide etc. You haven't ever cut Biden a break. Makes me wonder. It's not my job to cut politicians a break. Its our job to hold them to account.
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Post by Mare on Aug 30, 2021 23:21:51 GMT
I figure that I am danged if I do, danged if I don't on most political issues. Many times I have voted for the lesser evil, in my opinion. miles I have been thinking the same thing! I hope she is alright, as that is a really big catastrophe! longinglook, I hope that you've been able to contact all your family members and friends-and that they are safe. I'm sending you light, hope and strength and my fingers are crossed, too. <3
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Post by miles on Sept 1, 2021 18:27:49 GMT
And that's why we shouldn't nail our colours to a party that you think represents us. I'm done with that. But others can't let go. Set yourself free. It's still a fucked up vista but at least you don't have that pressure of what you should be thinking obscuring your view. And that, in a nutshell is why Trump was elected. Some people were done with Democracts and voted for a Russian tool, or just didn't vote. Worked out great
Oh yeah Trump's Supreme Court just allowed abortion to become illegal in Texas. But let us reject parties for some kind of imagined purity, and let the fascist rule.
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Post by miles on Sept 1, 2021 18:29:24 GMT
Josh Marshall: . . . So I would ask again, what exactly was the great failure of execution? There have been a few criticisms on operational grounds. But they seem weak at best. One we’ve heard a lot is that the US should have held Bagram Airport rather than the civilian airport in Kabul. I’m not a military planner. But on its face if the main mission is evacuation and the people are in Kabul it seems clear that the airport near the people is the better option. Otherwise, you’re in a sort of Mad Max type situation managing highly vulnerable convoys on a forty mile drive from Kabul to the heavily defended military airbase. I’ll leave that question to others. But again, what was the failure of execution? It really seems that the “failure,” the “there had to be a better way” argument, is that the government fell. Is that a failure of execution? Not really. It was an inherent risk of withdrawal. Indeed, by any candid evaluation it was an inevitable result of withdrawal. The question was just how long it would take to happen. It happened faster than anyone seems to have anticipated. And the US reacted quickly with a contingency plan to manage an evacuation which was actually quite successful. Let us remember that two weekends ago a crush of prominent commentators and reporters were stating as fact that the White House had been caught flatfooted and abandoned everyone who had worked for the US during its war in Afghanistan. They declared the evacuation a catastrophic failure and shameful betrayal when it was actually only starting and then in many cases took credit for the evacuation after it happened, on the premise that it was only their cries of betrayal that made it happen. This is a bracingly self-serving and sloppy logic. One of the worst offenders on this front, ABC’s Martha Raddatz, was forced to move the goalposts yet again yesterday: now judging the evacuation a “success,” she claimed Biden was “conflating the withdrawal with the evacuation … they did not realize the Taliban would take over so quickly.” talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/taking-stock-of-the-great-and-cowardly-press-freakout-of-august-2021
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Post by donavan on Sept 1, 2021 19:07:31 GMT
And that's why we shouldn't nail our colours to a party that you think represents us. I'm done with that. But others can't let go. Set yourself free. It's still a fucked up vista but at least you don't have that pressure of what you should be thinking obscuring your view. And that, in a nutshell is why Trump was elected. Some people were done with Democracts and voted for a Russian tool, or just didn't vote. Worked out great
Oh yeah Trump's Supreme Court just allowed abortion to become illegal in Texas. But let us reject parties for some kind of imagined purity, and let the fascist rule.
Being more open in your thinking doesn't mean doing the opposite to your inherent beliefs. It just means asking questions of everyone including the people you support. Over here when the evacuation happened the top brass in charge of it were all away on holiday. Anyone watching the news could see how fast things were unfolding. Apparently not the politicians. No criticism of the people on the ground. As usual they are the heroes and the victims.
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Post by Mare on Sept 1, 2021 23:54:26 GMT
Being more open in your thinking doesn't mean doing the opposite to your inherent beliefs. It just means asking questions of everyone including the people you support. Over here when the evacuation happened the top brass in charge of it were all away on holiday. Anyone watching the news could see how fast things were unfolding. Apparently not the politicians. No criticism of the people on the ground. As usual they are the heroes and the victims. That sounds like TX Senator Ted Cruz, who left his state as most of the State was experiencing power outages due to a huge snow storm brought in by a cold front swooping down from Canada, I think. Danged fool left for a Cancun trip because he said he wanted to make his daughters happy when they nagged him for a vacation to someplace warm. Idiot even got on a plane and flew to Cancun before what I guess was someone telling him not to commit political suicide by abandoning his state when citizens needed him most. Luckily, my sister and her family knew that extremely bad weather was coming, and they got their cold weather camping gear out. She was without power for DAYS. She was worried about the pipes breaking. In her area of Texas there is a tropical climate. They are also on the "Supply and Demand" costing out of energy usage...the less energy there is, the more you pay for it. People thought, we're never going to have weather that cold, let's pass this plan, and so they had outrageously expensive bills in areas where there was power.
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