A long time ago, Chrestus asked if I knew a way to archive The Religion Thread from The Back Porch. I thought it was a good idea then, and I still do. But... I still don't know how to go about it, anybody have an idea?
I think its win the argument. The topic itself almost becomes incidental to the argument. Its more about sleight of hand logic, little rabbit holes we get dug into, trapping people into "conundrums" that probably exist in any philosophical discussion, as far as I can tell. I think a lot of the more meaningful aspects of the discussion get buried in mounds of side-bars that just keep people running around in circles.
There IS no winning the argument either way, which is why the rabbit holes and conundrums come to the fore, because you CAN win & lose THOSE distractions.
I participated in a number of theist/atheist groups on Facebook with participants (by and large) a lot smarter and more skilled than I am. Divinity students. Physicists. And they all end up in logic arguments about First Cause. But the side stuff gets nasty enough where people really go for the throat, and I don't mean in a logical argument - I mean in personal character assassination. People of different beliefs who became friends earlier on end up becoming enemies. And I am tired of fighting, on Facebook or here or anywhere. I thought I would get into these groups where people were really questioning their own beliefs or non-beliefs. No Everyone merely wanted to prove they were right to themselves.
So you folks go on ahead, and try not to hurt each other, or anybody. Unless, or course, they ask you.
I did like that Fry answer, and was thinking of posting it myself. But only as an argument against the ignorance of the simplest form religious belief. Here's the video, directly:
But I still see the same old problems with it, the same old problems of this age-old criticism.
1. That atheists argue against the simplest explanation of a creator god, and almost exclusively against the Sunday School version of the Judeo-Christian God. As if there really were "pearly gates" that you "walk" up to justify yourself. You can believe in God, or a God without believing in this Narnia level fantasy. It's a kid's story, grow up!
2. The first story in the bible explains the Christian rationalization of hardships in the world. We do not live in the Garden of Eden. Life is hard, soil must be toiled, pain must be experienced. It's kind of a weak explanation, but I do believe that if you are to believe in an afterlife that rewardfs or punishes you for your time on earth, that it is something different than an idealized or horrific version of the physical world you just dropped out of and that it is this afterlife that is the reward or next step after a painful physical existence.
I have a real hard time believing that a God who created everything and loves every single human being would cast them into an eternal lake of fire for not loving him sufficiently or following his (often arcane) commandments. I mean, human parents whose children have down awful, terrible things - like murder and terrorism - they may hate what their child has done, but they still love their child. I find it totally incongruous that an eternal almighty God would be LESS loving than his human creations are.
And if he IS? Well, that is not a deity worthy of my respect, much less worship.
Franky, I changed my belief from when I first participated in that forum religious thread. I was a non-religious theist. Now I am an atheist. And the credit (or blame) for that lies largely with Spidermage.
sticksman1: I'm fine Mare, thank you for asking... and hope you are too?
Jul 7, 2021 14:55:57 GMT
Mare: Yes, thank you, sticksman1 ! I'm in a nice, smooth patch. My best to you and yours!
Jul 7, 2021 15:53:57 GMT
bluedemon25: No ones going to comment on the new Colin song/music video out? I liked it. I know it's not about puns, body parts, or sports, but I thought it'd get excited mention from someone.
Jul 8, 2021 0:55:05 GMT