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Post by miles on Apr 8, 2016 17:57:24 GMT
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Post by donavan on Apr 9, 2016 20:12:58 GMT
That was interesting but not exactly new information. I agree about tackling the issues that lead to addiction rather than just the abusive behaviour. Getting things the right way round and removing the stigma. The OCD example is something I've had lots to do with with someone close. The only problem is although issues can be tackled on an individual basis with the right therapy and support, such support is very difficult to obtain. So to roll it out on a widespread basis will probably never happen. We don't live in a caring and responsible enough society for that to happen. If we did there would be less need for it in the first place. And therein lies the problem.
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Post by miles on Apr 11, 2016 22:21:04 GMT
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Post by donavan on Apr 12, 2016 7:57:53 GMT
If you don't mind me asking, how did it change your life?
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Post by miles on Apr 12, 2016 19:27:26 GMT
I don't mind you asking, just I don't know if I can express it clearly. One of the most common effects, and now the research helps explain what is going on, is the sensation referred to as ego death. For all our lives we perceive ourselves as autonomous beings, separate and unique. Our individuality gives us an identity and a rock of security in humanities sea of millions. Our ego is the internal construct that holds this separateness together and establishes a boundary between ourselves and everything else. We often believe that our ego is us, it is our essence and identity. LSD causes us to experience our connection to things we try to remain distinct from. This sensation of ego death is both frightening and liberating. You perceive that you are more than this collection of cells, memories and experiences, located in human form. One positive effect is feeling this profound connection to the web of life and all encompassing love for everything. As Lennon wrote "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." We can see ourselves from the outside looking in, and gain insight into ourselves, our behavior and beliefs. On the other hand, egos are very useful in our daily life and so to are assumptions and illusions, at least to keep us functioning and productive. So one of the scary things is now that you have this insight, how do I go back to being the person you were before and who everyone expects me to be? When the effects of the drug wear off, one usually puts the pieces back and accepts the duality of still being a little separate entity and yet understanding there is much more to it. This is one of the dangerous aspects, for someone who does not have a guide, a more experienced person to trip with. Some people can't put their ego back together, this vision can't be successfully integrated into daily life.
The perceptions you have on LSD may change your values. You may become less materialistic, you might feel greater empathy for other people in recognizing our shared commonality. You might also find other things or activities that gave your life meaning no longer do so, and you may decide to change your life in a radical way, quit your job etc. Personally, my experiences made me less afraid of death, more sympathetic to others and reinforced my desire to devote myself to my dream, which was to be an artist. Personal fulfillment over material status or societal approval. I think it made me more forgiving of myself, I could accept how imperfect I was, and have less need to prove my worth to others.
Huxley called it the doors of perception. A friend described it as ripping off your filters temporarily and seeing thing the way things really are. Others will consider it temporary insanity. It is serious business, not a recreational drug.
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Post by donavan on Apr 12, 2016 21:37:38 GMT
Thanks for sharing. Reminds me of the line, "If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor."
Not sure how you put things back in the box and carry on as normal.
It also sounds like scary shit. I only know one person who tried it and it wasn't a good experience.
But with the right research I'm guessing the medical benefits for certain conditions could be useful.
Much of the brain remains an uncharted planet.
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Post by miles on Apr 13, 2016 19:05:19 GMT
How are going to keep them down on the farm...
Some time after my main explorations, mushrooms became the preferred form of psychedelic. The effects are milder and shorter in duration. Only took them a couple times as I had lost interest by then. After you have the revelations and see all the varieties of hallucinations, it starts to be kind of a re-run. Leaving you with the sensation of yeah I remember this, nothing new. When we were young and crazy, the doses were very high, making it even more dangerous if someone had a bad trip. That is if you even had any idea what the dosage was.
Lsd and mmda have been helpful as therapy for terminally ill patients. It can assist them come to terms with death, overcome their fears and feelings of isolation. Even open up intense feelings of love for those around them.
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Post by donavan on Apr 13, 2016 21:23:11 GMT
But are those feelings real? I guess you will reply, what is real? And that question is valid outside of the world of drug taking. Perhaps more valid if you can get your head in that mindset without an assist.
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Post by peggs on Apr 14, 2016 1:16:05 GMT
That's just the stars in your eyes, or above your head. -------------- If the legalization of pot would put a serious damper on the global drug trade and cartels, I'd be all for it. That, however, is a pipe dream (no pun intended). This bit might be veering off topic - if so, tell me and continue with the discussion. I wonder if there is a correlation between the rapid growth and devastating affects of meth use in the U.S. (and the social and legal inabilities to confront and contain it), and the increase in social and legal acceptance of marijuana. With meth being the monster it is, pot is the least of our worries on the drug scene today. --===-- Edited to add: I wrote the above before reading past donavan's post. The discussion seems to have shifted a bit in the past few posts. It's all still excellent. Carry on!
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Post by peggs on Apr 14, 2016 1:39:18 GMT
Miles, thank you for the link to the Salon article. I've read a small bit of it and look forward to reading the entire interview.
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Post by miles on Apr 14, 2016 18:29:25 GMT
That's just the stars in your eyes, or above your head. -------------- If the legalization of pot would put a serious damper on the global drug trade and cartels, I'd be all for it. That, however, is a pipe dream (no pun intended). This bit might be veering off topic - if so, tell me and continue with the discussion. I wonder if there is a correlation between the rapid growth and devastating affects of meth use in the U.S. (and the social and legal inabilities to confront and contain it), and the increase in social and legal acceptance of marijuana. With meth being the monster it is, pot is the least of our worries on the drug scene today. --===-- Edited to add: I wrote the above before reading past donavan's post. The discussion seems to have shifted a bit in the past few posts. It's all still excellent. Carry on! Peggs, I think you may be correct. Remember that much of the anti-pot argument was based on it being a "gateway drug." It wasn't the worst thing in itself, but it started you down the road to smack, crack or meth. I also think that many families have been devastated by meth and now opiate addiction, and can see the difference. Hell, many families have been destroyed by alcohol. Yet it is tobacco addiction that kills more people than all the rest combined. The laws have not worked, unless their intent was to criminalize certain groups. The cartels will adept. When state laws were put into place to restrict sales of cold medicine that was used to cook homemade meth, the usage rate did go down. The cartels realized they had a new market, the addicts that used to make their own and no longer could.
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Post by miles on Apr 14, 2016 18:40:41 GMT
But are those feelings real? I guess you will reply, what is real? And that question is valid outside of the world of drug taking. Perhaps more valid if you can get your head in that mindset without an assist. People that are terminally ill are usually given many heavy duty drugs, that are designed to kill pain, and do not promote awareness, love or feeling connected to others. I do think the feelings are real, in that the positive perceptions/feelings remain weeks or months after the experience. Of course, some patients chose to take as few drugs as they can, and willingly suffer great pain, to maintain sobriety.
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Post by donavan on Apr 15, 2016 5:58:02 GMT
I take pretty heavy duty pain relief medication each and every day. The problem I have is, your body adapts to it and well after a time, the drugs don't work. And with side effects, they just make you worse. As the song goes This is a problem with most drugs. You end up taking more and stronger, not to feel better, but just to feel less shit. If you'll pardon my French. And with side effects, sometimes which take years to come into effect, drug taking of any kind is a risky business. Yes we need more research, but that research is usually sponsored by someone with a vested interest. Which doesn't always give a balanced outcome.
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Post by miles on Apr 15, 2016 19:49:23 GMT
Yes unbiased research is hard to get when the backers have a particular outcome in mind. I just read a guardian article that was about health officials in the UK concerned about links to heavy pot use in young people and mental illness. They say a certain small percentage are at risk of psychosis, but you have no way of knowing if you are in that group. Their research didn't prove it caused the condition, just the association.
Sorry to hear about your pain situation.
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Post by donavan on Apr 16, 2016 19:14:06 GMT
Thanks, but it's a way of life now. Funny how we forget how things were once like. We change what we consider "normal" all the time. With or without drugs. Our expectations of what is an acceptable quality life is constantly changing. We are constantly in compromise.
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