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Post by longinglook on Mar 19, 2016 5:48:18 GMT
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Post by donavan on Mar 19, 2016 7:44:19 GMT
Now I know why Kermit is green.
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Post by longinglook on Mar 19, 2016 13:52:20 GMT
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Post by donavan on Mar 20, 2016 0:39:33 GMT
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Post by miles on Mar 29, 2016 18:19:45 GMT
It's a new day. In my midsize college town I can walk into any one of 40 or so stores and buy weed.
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Post by donavan on Mar 29, 2016 19:23:16 GMT
Is that a good thing? It's a tricky one.
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Post by miles on Mar 29, 2016 20:09:22 GMT
Is that a good thing? It's a tricky one. You can buy tobacco and alcohol everywhere and it is well established what they do. I know some individuals will abuse pot, but keeping it illegal only makes them a criminal as well as as having a substance problem. Oregon, Washington and Colorado are conducting a new approach. So far there have been few of the anticipated horror stories, there has actually been a decrease in overdose deaths (from opiates and synthetic painkillers) in states where pot is legal. It is clear that the real drug problem in the US is addiction to opiates, not caused by the "gateway drug" marijuana, but by the over reliance on legal prescribed painkillers. I don't believe pot is harmless, but on a relative scale it is less so than alcohol, tobacco and most prescription painkillers (possibly some of the anti-anxiety and anti-depression drugs as well.) I think it is a challenge for people with kids to have such free access to pot in their immediate environment, but it always was available, just underground.
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Post by donavan on Mar 29, 2016 20:39:21 GMT
Thing is, I don't know were to get it from and I am not that interested as to track it down. But if I could buy it over the counter I might very well do so. Plus it gives it the thumbs up, it's OK message. If alcohol and tobacco were new to the market now knowing their possible consequences, they would indeed be banned. And I'm not sure the, if you can't control it legalise it, argument holds up. But I can see the validity of some of your points. Like I said, tricky.
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Post by longinglook on Mar 29, 2016 23:28:00 GMT
I can't get past miles'first post in this thread. It makes me a different kind of green - with envy.
I do not live in an enlightened part of the world.
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Post by miles on Mar 29, 2016 23:45:31 GMT
I can't get past miles'first post in this thread. It makes me a different kind of green - with envy. I do not live in an enlightened part of the world. Um sorry, I'm afraid we get a bit glib about how lucky we are to live here. It does rain a lot though ( I know it does it does in NO too LL I do see progress in small steps, like acknowledging medical uses and the reduction of penalties in many other parts of the country.
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Post by miles on Mar 30, 2016 0:10:39 GMT
Thing is, I don't know were to get it from and I am not that interested as to track it down. But if I could buy it over the counter I might very well do so. Plus it gives it the thumbs up, it's OK message. If alcohol and tobacco were new to the market now knowing their possible consequences, they would indeed be banned. And I'm not sure the, if you can't control it legalise it, argument holds up. But I can see the validity of some of your points. Like I said, tricky. One difference is that legal pot is tested for pesticides etc and also rated for properties/strength. You can buy strains that are low in THC and higher in other compounds that are associated with controlling seizures and other conditions. So not everybody is trying to stay stoned. The tax revenue has been many times over estimates. The underground market delivered neither of these benefits, and neither would de-criminalization only. The medical marijuana system already in place, set up some of the necessary laws and practices that preceded legalization. We don't know what may happen over the long term, as you say. Part of the problem is that because of prohibition, we know much less than we should in terms of long term hazards, whatever they might be. The extensive scientific testing that could have done was made near impossible by the hysteria of the "war on drugs" began by Richard Nixon. Will legalization increase use at younger ages? I can't say that I have noticed any change in public places, where it is still illegal to use, and it is only legal over for those 21 years of age.
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Post by donavan on Mar 30, 2016 5:29:10 GMT
But we all smoked cigarettes when we were under 21 because you could get them one way or another because of the wide availability. However, I didn't seek out less available drugs. The medical and purity/strength points you make, make good sense. But I'm still uneasy about how easy you can buy it at the store. I think a whole group of people who would otherwise never consider smoking pot could be exposed to trying and using it. I mean that's how I got into cigarettes because it was easily available and acceptable. I've never used any drugs outside of cigarettes and alcohol so maybe I'm seeing it through different eyes. But it's still a view point that needs to be considered.
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Post by miles on Mar 30, 2016 19:14:52 GMT
I think there are many people who, for health, moral or religious reasons, are completely sober and think it would be best if no one used any kind of substance. Perhaps humans will evolve and no longer desire altering our consciousnesses with any harmful chemicals. We do seem wired to want to alter ourselves in one way or another at this point, in which case the priority becomes harm reduction imo.
I have had quite a lot of experiences from my high school days on. I never did smoke cigarettes. I've had some very meaningful acid trips, in fact I took my first one with my father. Many of my opinions about this were influenced by his direct knowledge of illegal drugs. His advice to me as a teenager: pot is okay, acid under controlled circumstances only, watch out for alcohol and DO NOT TAKE smack, speed or downers. I still think it is pretty reasonable advice. This was before coke showed up in any volume on the scene, and I remember people saying how great it was and no ill effects. They were wrong.
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Post by donavan on Mar 30, 2016 22:25:56 GMT
Outside of medical reasons, maybe we should be asking why we want to alter our state of mind. It's widely accepted we are less productive in most ways whilst under the influence. Is it a coping mechanism? Escapism? Or is life so unfair and unfulfilling that we need to switch off from it from time to time? I no longer smoke cigarettes but still drink too much sometimes and I ask myself these same questions. Why do we need any of this shit? Is it ultimately making anyone happy other than those that profit from selling it, legally or otherwise.
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Post by miles on Apr 1, 2016 0:53:01 GMT
Outside of medical reasons, maybe we should be asking why we want to alter our state of mind. It's widely accepted we are less productive in most ways whilst under the influence. Is it a coping mechanism? Escapism? Or is life so unfair and unfulfilling that we need to switch off from it from time to time? I no longer smoke cigarettes but still drink too much sometimes and I ask myself these same questions. Why do we need any of this shit? Is it ultimately making anyone happy other than those that profit from selling it, legally or otherwise. These are a big questions. I believe there is some need to escape ourselves. aside from drugs and alcohol, some meditate, some watch tv for it's sedative effect and some binge on sweets. They would get pretty cranky if prevented from doing so. I ate extraordinary amounts of sugar well into my 20s, and let me tell you, it altered the hell out of me. And I liked it. I still avoid refined sugar cause it is so addictive and unhealthy. Little kids like to spin around until they get dizzy, or at least that was a popular pastime in my neighborhood. So I do think there is a universal need to turn off the normal functioning of the mind, at times. More so depending on the conditions/environment. In some cultures this has a religious connection, a socially integrating ritual involving substances. Our rituals like happy hour, spring break and the like, are generally low on spiritual concerns meter.
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